Senate estimates: Lidia Thorpe fires up over claims ‘black money’ funding police

Crossbencher Lidia Thorpe has teared up as she demanded to know why federal funds are flowing to the country’s “most racist police forces” while grilling the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA).

Probing the agency at Senate estimates on Tuesday, Senator Thorpe said she was repeatedly told by Ministers “that police services are a state and territory responsibility, so never mind the harm these police forces do to our people”.

“But why is the federal government using black money to fund police services that are supposed to be core state responsibilities?” she asked, referring to NIAA grants that.

After a lengthy silence, Julie-Ann Guivarra, the agency head who was supposed to answer, said she was finding information to answer a previous question and asked Senator Thorpe to repeat.

The request did not go down well with the independent.

“Look, I’m really invested in keeping my people alive, and I hope everyone in the back there is as well,” Senator Thorpe responded.

“We have over 600 deaths in custody, and we have the highest incarceration rates in this country, and we have a Labor government … that is paying the police when our people are dying.

“So my question is, why is NIAA money, black money, given to the South Australian cops for cross-border intelligence sharing, when the excuse I get for the intervention on deaths in custody and hanging points (is) ‘Oh, it’s a state and territory responsibility’. But you’re giving state cops money — why?!”

Kevin Brahim, who heads operations at NIAA, took the question and offered to “get details about the actual grant”, which he did not have on hand.

He did say he could speak more broadly about what sort of cross-border community services were being funded, but Senator Thorpe cut him off in a bid to keep the response “relevant”.

“I don’t mean to be rude, but this is 400 grand that’s gone to South Australian cops for cross-border intelligence sharing, which is not to do with the community,” she said.

“This is a state responsibility that the state should be paying for, regardless of black community being in the same vicinity.”

Referencing the grant, Mr Brahim said grant recipients were “very clear” that the money would go toward “supporting families that move across borders, sharing intelligence, which is really important if you want to also share services to make sure service continuity is maintained”.

“So does sharing intelligence mean helping lock up our people?” Senator Thorpe probed.

“No, I was very clear in that meeting ... with all the service providers ... that meeting to make sure that the services that were available for the people that came into the communities and the families were activated very quickly.”

‘It is a genocide’: Thorpe grills A-G department

In a separate estimates hearing, Senator Thorpe blew up at the Attorney-General’s department over Northern Territory youth justice reforms she claimed “targeted our babies” and constituted a “genocide”.

The independent senator branded the Northern Territory government as “racist” over its reintroduction of spit hoods for youth offenders in her furious grilling.

“This goes against all of the laws associated with the rights of the child. So you haven’t briefed the Attorney-General, yet we have a really bad government, a very racist Northern Territory government that are locking our children up,” she said in the estimates hearing.

“We’re seeing children violated at the age of 10 and we’re doing nothing.

“How many more children will be violated until that advice is given … and action happens to stop children being violated.”

Following a response from department secretary Katherine Jones, the Senator said there was no comfort in her “shallow words”.

“There is a lever that can be used to stop torturing 10-year-old-children in this country and this government, through your department, hasn’t even briefed the Attorney-General on it,” Ms Thorpe said.

“It is genocide, because it is targeting our babies.”

More to come.